elisi: (Spike DD by ruuger (NOT sharable!))
[personal profile] elisi
Serendipity is a funny thing...

This whole Joss mess has come along exactly as I decided to finally delve back into the AtS 'verse and finish a WIP I abandoned years ago. (As it happens, it's the only fic I've ever properly planned out, so I found my extensive notes and actually know where the story is going!)

Now, before beginning to write I figured I should probably watch a few episodes, just to make sure I had their voices right in my head; so I watched A Hole in the World and Shells. And it's a fascinating exercise in doublethink (doubleview?).

Like, I love the 'verse. I love the characters. I love the story. I will always be grateful to Joss & co for creating this world.

But there is also the fact that (the very very special) Fred has SIX men standing around her bedside. All of them going to go out and try to SAVE her. (See subject line...)

As you know, the only other women (still standing) in the extended cast are Harmony (who is delightful, but mostly comic relief) and Eve, who is very powerful yet lost all agency the second she lost her boyfriend. ETA: Oh and there's Nina too. I like Nina. It's sad her role never extends beyond Being The Girlfriend.

The interesting thing is that the same week my girls decided to watch [the new movie version of] Les Mis.

And it was exactly the same thing:

- Men make things happen.

- Women have things happen to them.

This is why Buffy (and Wonder Woman, Rey, et al) are so special. They make things happen.

(Possibly more musings later, but this is a pretty well-trodden path, and I'm preaching to the choir...)


Also I'm realising this is probably a pretty awful way to try to get people to read my 'Spike & Angel & Illyria go on an epic quest to undo the power of W&H' story, as it's rather male-centric. AH WELL. It's not like LJ is teeming with people reading AtS fic anymore. Although I should probably point out that there's a good deal of Buffy & her Slayer army in it too...

For those who want to try (and the lovely handful which read the first few chapters back in 2013 when I started posting and might want to have another look), you can find the fic here (well, the first 7 chapters):

Divided Destiny

More chapters coming soon! :D (*crickets*)

(no subject)

Date: 28 August 2017 10:37 pm (UTC)
greensword: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greensword
That's just the internal workings of the dial, I'd say. It resets, but not completely. F.ex. Clara portrait was painted by the Doctor.

TBH I'm still a little confused about how internal variation works, it seems like if he changed things up even a little bit he wouldn't have been able to, at the very end of each cycle, get back to the room to power the thing. (That's vague, but I think you'll get what I mean.) Unless that's all for show and it would have reset anyway. Although if variations are allowed, and the dial resets everything, (a) why were the versions we saw so incredibly similar, (b) why do some things reset but not others (portrait, stars) and (c) why make it *seem* like it had to be exactly the same each time if it's only going to confuse audience members?
Edited Date: 28 August 2017 10:38 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 30 August 2017 02:51 pm (UTC)
greensword: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greensword
But why does he go power the thing if he's figured it out? Presumably the dial will reset anyway even if he doesn't, and he could use that time to leave himself better clues? Or is he reseting the dial himself - it's not a naturally occurring thing - and he really would just die if he didn't?

(no subject)

Date: 31 August 2017 02:36 pm (UTC)
greensword: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greensword
Okay, but if that's the case then I really don't buy that there's any variation at all from time to time.

Let's say each re-set takes three months to occur. That's four re-sets a year, so 20 billion re-sets total. If there was any variation at all from time to time then in 20 billion cycles he would have missed the manual re-set at least once, especially since he's so close to missing it the times we see.

The first time through the stars are pretty normal, there's no Clara painting, and there's no skulls anywhere. The second-to-last time through the stars are unrecognizable, there's a painting of Clara, and the sea is full of skulls. You don't that radically different set of evidence would change, if not the Doctor's conclusion, the timeframe in which he reaches it? And yet each time he barely reaches the manual re-set. And I'm not even touching here the conclusion that the human/time lord brain/mind/soul is so deterministic that given 20 billion opportunities they would do the exact same thing each time. How depressing!

(no subject)

Date: 1 September 2017 01:45 am (UTC)
greensword: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greensword
So I think of logic and poetry as two separate attributes of a story. Every story needs both, in decent amounts - human beings need at least some logical consistency/causality, and what's the point of a story without any poetry, right?

Logic and poetry aren't opposites, of course, but they can be traded off, the same way one might trade off location and good price when looking to buy a home. Ideally you'll have both, but if one is really stellar, you'll accept mediocrity with the other, especially if you personally value one more than the other.

I see Moffat as a poet who does not pay a ton of attention to logic. His plots and characterizations are still broadly logical, just like all tv is, but it's not his forte. That's why I said I'd given up on expecting logic from him. What I really meant was, "I've given up on expecting enough logic to satisfy me."

I think maybe this disconnect between you and me is that the amount of consistency you see as 'enough' for Doctor Who is less than what I need. That wouldn't surprise me, as everyone needs different levels of consistency (and poetry!). And of course things vary from episode to episode as well as person to person. I have strong feelings about determinism that probably influence my sense of plot inconsistency in this part of the episode, and strong feelings about Donna's mindwipe that influence my sense of character inconsistency later in the episode. Whereas there may be other things in Doctor Who that you find hard to swallow where I don't even notice anything weird. ;)

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